Curse

Reinfire · Oct 26, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

That said, the design team is aware that earning the Kurzick and Luxon titles is almost impossible to achieve through normal play. Because of this, a few players felt compelled to use of bots to earn points toward these titles during the special weekend event.

While we do not condone the use of bots, this portion of the game is so unbalanced and difficult, that a few players may have felt they had no other choice

No choice? Since when is maxing a title compulsory to playing this game? Except for one PvE-only skill, Luxon/Kurzick titles are nothing but a fancy line under your name, so I dont see how people having "no-choice" is any excuse to save them from a perfectly justified account-termination.

And I don't see why a-net marks this title as impossible to get, while other PvP title are way harder to max. AFAIK no-one in the game has maxed Gladiator, Champion or Commander, and only 1 account has maxed hero, while there are hundreds of people with maxed Luxon/Kurzick title.

And who cares that a title cannot be maxed in 1 or 2 months. Ive been doing regular AB for two and a half years now and I'm only at one-third of maxing the title. I don't care, its still fun for me, even though I'm pretty sure I wont ever see the title maxed.

Also to the people who brought up statements like: "maxing a title through HFFF is unfair to the people who worked hard for it in AB": Titles have no value whatsoever in game, of course its fun to get nice titles but they should only serve as a personal achievement. No-one will think you are cool just because you have X maxed titles, so stop whining

Riot Narita · Oct 26, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by False Healer

Only little children ever make "innocent mistakes" but as adults we know better and yet we still make mistakes none the less, right.

No. I maintain that running a bot is not a "mistake". It's a deliberate act, done in the full knowledge that it is wrong, and that the consequence is a perma-ban if caught (well, it used to be a perma-ban).

It's not a case of "woops, I accidentally searched for a bot... and downloaded it... and followed its instructions... and ran it all weekend".

Arduin · Oct 26, 2008, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Where did they say this? Where is the announcement that you are using as this basis as far as G15s please?

This thread is about a player using a G15 macro during HFFF weekend, (approved by Gaile), and getting banned in return.

Though Regina hasn't exactly stated the use of G15's will get you banned, I'd stay far away from using ANY kind of macro's from now on.

Iuris · Oct 26, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

I think this has much much less to do with how hard the title is to get. It's more about not punishing someone because the whole title system is about to be changed. If they are going to make the Kurz/Lux title easier to get, it might look bad to ban people just weeks before the title system changes.

fusa · Oct 26, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Where does Gail Gray say use of G15 macro's are ok? Its not in any of her posts in the last 12 months on Guru, or her wiki page. Only thing close I see is: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...9&postcount=78 and http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...5&postcount=28 where a player posted a gm's response on whether G15 was ok to use. Even then they did say fully automating=ban. I also don't see any reference to using G15 in Regina's post here either.
Great way of Anet of looking out for people that don't have to cheat to play their game, by rewarding people that do.

Robbert Monga · Oct 26, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reinfire

Also to the people who brought up statements like: "maxing a title through HFFF is unfair to the people who worked hard for it in AB": Titles have no value whatsoever in game, of course its fun to get nice titles but they should only serve as a personal achievement. No-one will think you are cool just because you have X maxed titles, so stop whining

Really? Then why is everyone trying to get them? Personal achievements mean squat. Public achievements mean everything.... that and PvE skills of course. Thats why everyone wants the titles. Just because you don't have one, doesn't mean your opponent is whiner... only means you lack a better argument.

Reinfire · Oct 26, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Public achievements mean everything

So in other words you simple gain titles so that some unknown 13-year old across the globe, who you dont know, think you are cool.

For PvE-skill's sake it is indeed usefull to max certain titles, but these are IMO just the EotN titles, The title which this thread is about (luxon/kurzick) does not qualify for this

Lawliet Kira · Oct 26, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

-_- would you want to bot HFFF anyway..you just stand there..click a few buttons...and go back

Arkantos · Oct 26, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

People, calm down.

-Gaile has said it's okay to use G15 macro's.

-Players used these macro's to facilitate HFFF

-Players got banned because of their bot-like behaviour

-Anet now rolls back the bans because those banned people pointed out it was okay to use G15 macro's, according to Gaile.

-To avoid any more confusion, Anet takes a clear stance on botting: using a bot, or any other form of automated input (even G15's), from now on, will got you permabanned.

There really isn't anything more to this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

-Gaile has said it's okay to use G15 macro's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

-Gaile has said

So because Gaile Gray, our former "CR" who has given us false information on numerous occasions, said using G15 macros was ok, it's ok, right?

....Right?

Now I'm not saying she's right or she's wrong, but I'd get a more reliable source of information if I was you.

Inde · Oct 26, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Gaile never said it was okay to use the G15 macro's FYI. I've looked through all postings and online chat. This is another case of people taking someone's words and pulling meaning out of them that has never been there. Gaile said she has never seen anyone BANNED for using a G15/keyboard macro (this statement was made 1 year ago as a reference though). Not that they were okay to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I have never heard of anyone being banned for the use of a keyboard that has hotkey functionality. I will ask Support for their feedback on that, but seriously, I've never seen that done, and I don't see any such use on the termination parameter checklist.

To see the full quote on banning bots and the ONLY PUBLIC STATEMENT that has ever been made on keyboard macro's you can see that below:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I fear this is going to be a long post. I apologize in advance.

We do not authorize the use of any third-party programs within Guild Wars. The OP asks about voice-chat programs, but they operate side-by-side, not within the actual framework of the game programming.

With the release of Guild Wars Prophecies, we did have a partnership with one of the voice-chat programs (SpeakEasy) but again, it was "in addition to" and not "within" Guild Wars. Yes, as commented by Chthon, this is a good observation: "The text if the EULA plainly states that only third party programs that 'influence or advantage your use of [GW]' are forbidden." Ice Queen's statement, "A third party tool is any tool that can't run without GW being active. i.e they have no use if GW is not running at the same time" is quite good, as well. MikesSmikes' Post, No. 79, should be read (twice) by everyone with continuing concerns about how Guild Wars operates. And please read ShiningSquirrel's post, No. 112, for insightful commentary based on experience.

I think most of us--the wise ones, anyway --run a virus protection application or two. We might run a program that detects spyware, such as that added by some online advertising. All of us have operating systems, mouse programs, video card drivers... we each have lots of things on our systems that make it possible to run Guild Wars in the first place! Some run within Guild Wars, some run in addition to Guild Wars. But if they do run within the system--and frankly some must and a few should, in order effectively to be doing their job--we'd not want to recommend that people turn them off to avoid breach of the User Agreement. I mean, please, think about this clearly!

Frankly, I agree with Tranquilis here: People are taking their concerns to a ridiculous extreme. Don't ask for a list, because making a list would be impossible. "You mention XYZ Virus Scanner, but do you mean XYZ Virus Scanner Plus? It's not on your list." So listing by name is impossible. What if we made a generic "Voice chat programs" statement, and someone released one that included a handy-dandy bot program as a side benefit? "Why, it's (primarily) a voice chat program (with a little side goodie for item sales). Because it falls under the Voice Chat category, clearly it has been approved by ArenaNet and NCsoft!" So listing by generic category seems, also, undoable. Therefore, I do not believe we'll be able to offer a list--more info below--but I think it's pretty clear why that is.

Once again--abusing that deceased equine again?--occasionally there are erroneous account terminations. With regrets, yes. Just as there are erroneous blocks on a credit card account or infrequent holds on a bank account. I'd say they all relate to security. I know some of you have taken on these infrequent errors as a cause; after all, posting history catches you griping about them in theads about baked goods and shoe sizes.

But seriously, don't tell us not to block bot users. Don't suggest that we scape the system until it's perfect. Understand, instead, that we will always work to improve the system, but that the system is required to keep the game world and the game economy in good shape. Know that the margin of error is very, very small. Again, all those who follow up are immediately attended to with a review of the data that resulted in the termination. In some cases, the numerics uphold the termination, and the "appeal" is rejected. In others, a personal review, sometimes by more than one individual, for surety, results in reestablishment of the account. I'm not even going to get into "There should be no errors" or the self-righteous pontifications on "If there are any errors, then stop banning." Thinking individuals know that we must continue to terminate accounts of those abusing the game, using parameters of such detail that, again, we have an accuracy rating of nearly 100%. I think a few people are getting a bit carried away with this issue, sort of taking it on as a cause, and as politely as possible, they need to stop. While it grieves me that any member of the community may be blocked in error, I have full confidence that he or she will be reinstated if there indeed was an error. I believe that everyone should embrace the fact that the greater good is being served by the blocks of many hundreds of bot users and item sellers a week.

I have never heard of anyone being banned for the use of a keyboard that has hotkey functionality. I will ask Support for their feedback on that, but seriously, I've never seen that done, and I don't see any such use on the termination parameter checklist.

About volunteers: I worked with volunteers on fansites, and that required a very high level of oversight. (Turnover was high; failure to uphold site policies occurred too, from time to time. And we were not dealing with global laws nor accounts purchased for real-world cash as a developer/publisher must do.) There are a dozen reasons why we would not use volunteers, at least at this point, and certainly with the level of powers outlined in Post #125. You only have to look at gaming history to discover unfortunate issues of small and large scale problems. Consider Posts No. 115, No. 116 (last line made me smile), #120 ("one bad apple" comment -- I've seen it, it was ugly). We provide the services suggested for volunteers, except the warnings, and we feel that warnings are in place with the acceptance of the UA and ToC, both explained in the Conduct Breaches and Outcomes document.

I'm very happy to answer questions or address concerns, but please, no rants or continued repeats of the same issues, already addressed. I think many concerns have been addressed by us, here and elsewhere. And many have also been responded to, admirably, by members of this forum community. I hope that everyone has greater clarity on the matter now.

Shadowmoon · Oct 26, 2008, 07:10 PM // 19:10

"
Hello Alex,

Thank you very much for contacting the PlayNC Customer Support Team.

You asked if your new programmable keyboard was acceptable to use for playing Guild Wars. "What if...?" questions such as this are always tough to answer, because they have not happened yet. Nevertheless, I'll try to give you an understanding of what we might consider "right" and "wrong" when interacting with our service as it related to your new keyboard.

Using your programmable keyboard as a normal keyboard would certainly be fine. A keyboard is a basic tool that is virtually required to operate a computer and use our service. Each time you press a key, one character is typed or one action is made to happen and, in general, that is acceptable.

If you were somehow able to use your programmable keyboard to fully automate your gameplay experience, especially to the point where you did not have to attend your computer while your keyboard software "played" the game for you, then that would be considered against our User Agreement and subject to disciplinary action. ("You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NCsoft, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.")

Somewhere in between those two scenarios is a grey area. We can't make any "final judgments" on any grey area actions that have not yet occurred, and we will not speculate on all possible grey area scenarios and their outcomes. In general, please make sure that you are at your computer and playing your game. Ultimately, it is of utmost important to us that each character being played in Guild Wars is being operated by an actual person.
I know I wasn't able to provide a definitive rule that covered all possible scenarios, but I hope this helps your understanding of "helping one play" versus "playing for you" and what we would consider acceptable.

Regards
GM Greg"

I have never said GG said the g15 was ok, I've always said the justification for people making scripts and macro for HFF was because of the reason hightlighted in this GM responce. He also said that this was a grey area, which is the exact same thing as using textmod for getting your cartography title. Both are 3rd party solfware that give you an advantage, but would probably get over looked. But 2 weekend ago, they decided that using a keyboard to automate parts of the quest is now infact botting. This is why i understand why people thought what they were doing was not botting, they thought what they were doin was ok because they were required to be there for the scripting to work. The beleive this was more on the "helping one play" side.

Cobalt · Oct 26, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I can see why Anet is treating these botters they way they are, they were just accumulating rep which has no affect on the game it self. Had they been farming gold, particularly to be made for sale for cash I am sure they would be gone for good.

I can't wait to see the changes Anet will make to make it easier to max those titles, one can only rep farm so much before they go bonkers.

Riot Narita · Oct 26, 2008, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

they were just accumulating rep which has no affect on the game it self. Had they been farming gold, particularly to be made for sale for cash I am sure they would be gone for good.

Uh... what PLANET are you on? Because here on Earth, a) faction can be traded for amber/jadeite... which can be sold for gold, and b) HFFF gives 150g per run.

A human can make about 45 HFFF runs an hour, that's 6.75K per hour just from quest rewards, selling amber adds to the total. I can't imagine a bot can do as many runs per hour as ahuman, but it can run 24/7 and make phat lewtz.

Lycan Nibbler · Oct 26, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Thank you Inde for clearing that up.

Cobalt · Oct 26, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hissy

Uh... what PLANET are you on? Because here on Earth, a) faction can be traded for amber/jadeite... which can be sold for gold, and b) HFFF gives 150g per run.

A human can make about 45 HFFF runs an hour, that's 6.75K per hour just from quest rewards, selling amber adds to the total. I can't imagine a bot can do as many runs per hour as ahuman, but it can run 24/7 and make phat lewtz.

Forgot about the turn in for jade and amber.

Snow Bunny · Oct 26, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Ban them all.

"SORRY GUYS I WANTED SOME FOOD SO I KILLED THE CASHIER. DON'T BAN ME IRL KK?"

FrAnt1c² · Oct 26, 2008, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

"

Regards
GM Greg"

In a game I used to play called ultima online, GMs pmed you when they thought you were using macros, BUT you were allowed to use macros, as long as you were sitting behind your computer and could reply to the GM a couple of minutes later...

But this is gw, and nobody cares...

Shadowmoon · Oct 26, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I wish GM would just PM people, and they use that to justify if they are botting or not, rather than seeing how many times u do a quest over a given period of time. It seems to be alot more accurate, especially when most of the fully automated botters knew not to run the script 24/7, and probably scripted random delays and such. It seem this ban wave caught mostly the non afk script runners.

H2SO4 · Oct 26, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Really? Then why is everyone trying to get them? Personal achievements mean squat. Public achievements mean everything....

well what else is there to do in GW. High end pvp is dominataed by specific farm builds and you need other people (bane of my life) to do it.

pvp is too elitist as teams want people of a certain rank and specific build.

so for the person who doesnt satisfy the GW socities requirements ranks are all that are left.

That said they should be banned. They broke the rules and knew the penalty. Will they reverse my survivors death from a dropped connection? No ! then why reverse the botters ? Stuff like this will me more reasons why I wont buy GW2

Akane · Oct 27, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Guilty here...
succuumed to temptation - after my son downloaded a bot from Germany.
It was just too easy to get it running and walk away.
Use it for about a week leading up to the double weekend
Got extra greedy that weekend - 23 hrs straight is rather obvious.

My apologies to all.
Never thought I would sink that low.

It was my character on his account, and he just wanted that account back.
We offered that the guilty character (mine) could be deleted (27 titles), all money removed(+900k), and all faction stripped (+5mil Kurzick).
We only asked for some measure of mercy.
We'll find out soon enough the extent of the punishment.

Not sure how many others asked for similar leniancy.
I'm just very grateful ANET cut my son some slack.
It was heart-warming to know there are real people behind ANET who probably care FAR more about the GW community than some of you may believe.

Send abuse my way if you so choose, but ANET showing some humanity wasn't a bad thing. And they were courageous enough to post when they could've just quietly altered the punishment and said nothing.

The least I could do was to speak up on their behalf and put the blame back on to where it belongs... Germany!